A childhood shaped by poverty and hardships, the influence of Swami Vivekananda and the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS), and a deep sense of responsibility towards ordinary Indians helped build Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s brand of people-centric governance and his approach towards national transformation, the leader said on Sunday.
In a podcast with American computer scientist and podcaster Lex Fridman, Modi also spoke extensively about global geopolitics, urged Russian President Vladimir Putin and Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelensky to negotiate for peace, underlined his relationship with US President Donald Trump and the convergence of the “America First” and “Bharat first” policies, and held out strong words for Pakistan.
He also opened up on the 2002 Gujarat riots, said normalcy has returned to the India-China border after his recent talks with President Xi Jinping, and held out advice on a slew of topics ranging from exam stress and fasting to loneliness and the meaning of life.
But perhaps for the first time, Modi opened up about the factors and influences that have shaped him.
“Through the RSS, I found a life of purpose. Then I was fortunate to spend some time among the saints, which gave me a strong spiritual foundation. I found discipline and a life of purpose. And through the guidance of saints, I gained spiritual grounding,” Modi said in the three-hour-long podcast.
He spoke about his childhood, saying that despite growing up in poverty, he never felt its weight. He recalled how, even amid hardships, he never experienced a sense of deprivation, sharing a story about cleaning white shoes to underline his work ethic and dedication to cleanliness. “We never thought about being poor, or judged about how others lived, or what their struggles were. We lived carefree, enjoying whatever little we had, and kept working hard,” he said.
He said that during his childhood, he frequently visited the village library, where he read about Swami Vivekananda, whose teachings left a profound impact on his life.
“From Vivekananda, I learned that true fulfillment comes not from personal achievements but from selfless service to others,” he said. Modi also spoke of his deep bond with Swami Atmasthananda of the Ramakrishna Mission.
Modi said he felt blessed to have received his life’s purpose and the values of selfless service from the RSS, the spiritual fount of the Bharatiya Janata Party and one that is celebrating its centenary this year. He lauded the role RSS was playing at a global scale, highlighting how the Sangh was providing education and health care services. He pointed out key contrasts between leftist labor unions and the RSS-affiliated labor unions.
“It gives its members a purpose in life. It teaches that the nation is everything and that social service is the service of god. Whatever our Vedic saints and Swami Vivekanand have taught, Sangh also teaches that… Some members of the RSS introduced an organisation called ‘Vidya Bharti’ to bring about a revolution in education. They run 70000 schools across the country, 30 lakh students attend the schools at a time… Labour movements as promoted by the Leftists raise the slogan of ‘workers of the world, unite!’, whereas the labour organisation of the RSS raise the slogan ‘workers, unite the world!’…” the PM added.
These influences helped him build a model of governance that didn’t’ privilege elections, but people. “The government follows a policy of saturation—where benefits reach everyone without bias…I feel proud of being a member of the world’s largest political party which propagates the value of giving to others.
He spoke about his deep sense of responsibility towards the people, emphasising that public trust was his greatest strength throughout his political journey. The PM shared that since the day he entered politics, he considered the people as divine and worked with complete dedication to ensure their faith in him is never broken.
He also highlighted Mahatma Gandhi’s ability to transform India’s freedom struggle into a Jan Andolan – people’s movement – by recognising the power of Jan Shakti. “I always strive to involve as many people as possible in every initiative, turning it into a mass movement with Jan Bhagidari…society’s collective strength is boundless,” he said.
On the Russia-Ukraine conflict, PM Modi said it will only be resolved when both sides join the negotiation table, asserting that there can never be a resolution on the battlefield.
Highlighting his good relations with Putin and Zelensky, Modi said that he can urge Russia that war is not the solution while reminding Ukraine that battlefields do not bring real solutions no matter how many people may support it.
“I have a close relationship with Russia and Ukraine alike. I can sit with President Putin and say that this is not the time for war. And I can also tell President Zelensky, in a friendly way, that brother, regardless of how many people stand with you in the world, there will never be a resolution on the battlefield,” Modi said.
Speaking about his friendship with Trump, Modi recalled the 2019 ‘Howdy Modi’ event in Houston. The PM said that after he delivered his address, he requested Trump if he would take a lap around the stadium with him. “In American life, it’s almost impossible for the President to walk into a crowd of thousands. But without even a moment’s hesitation, he agreed and started walking with me. His entire security detail was thrown off guard,” Modi said.
“He makes his own decisions, but also, he trusted me and my lead in that moment enough to have walked with me into the crowd. It was that sense of mutual trust, a strong bond between us, that I truly witnessed on that day,” Modi said.
The PM recalled the assassination attempt on Trump last year and said, in that moment, he saw the same “resilient and determined” US president he had witnessed in 2019, “the one who had walked hand in hand with me in that stadium.”
The PM hailed how Trump remained “unwaveringly dedicated” to his country even after being shot, saying that the President’s life was for his nation. The PM drew a parallel between Trump’s “America First” and Modi’s “Nation First” approach and saw it as another binding factor between the two leaders. “His reflection showed his ‘America First’ spirit, just as I believe in Nation First,” Modi told Fridman.
“Even I had been briefed in many different ways before meeting him,” he said, “But to my surprise, the very moment I stepped into the White House, he broke all formal protocols right away. And then, he personally took me on a tour of the White House.”
To a question about the 2002 Gujarat riots, Modi said there was an attempt to create a false narrative to target him, and his political opponents in power at the Centre wanted him to be punished. The courts, however, cleared his name, he said.
Modi said the perception that the 2002 riots were the biggest riots ever in Gujarat was an attempt to push misinformation. “If you review the data from before 2002, you will see that Gujarat faced frequent riots. Curfews were constantly being imposed somewhere. Communal violence would erupt over trivial issues such as kite flying contests or even bicycle collisions,” Modi said.
The prime minister said the riots in Gujarat in 1969 lasted for more than six months and that was an era when he was nowhere on the political horizon. Modi said the Godhra train burning incident took place barely three days after he was elected as a legislator of the Gujarat Assembly.
“Before you talk about the 2002 riots, I would like to present a picture of the preceding years to give you fair idea of the situation. On 24 December 1999, a flight from Kathmandu to Delhi was hijacked and taken to Kandahar… In 2000, there was a terror attack on the Red Fort in Delhi. On 11 September 2001, there was a terror attack on America’s twin towers. In October 2001, there was a terror attack on the J&K assembly. On 13 December 2001, there was an attack on the Indian Parliament. These were global-level terrorist attacks which ignited sparks for global instability,” he said.
“Amid all this, on 7 October 2001, I was to become the CM of Gujarat… On 24 Feb 2002, I became an MLA for the first time… On 27 February, my government was to present the budget when we received the information about the Godhra train accident. It was a very serious incident. People were burnt alive. You can imagine what the situation must have looked like after all the previous incidents… Before 2002, there were more than 250 major riots in the state… Our opposition was in power, and they tried their best to get us punished in these false cases against us. Despite their efforts, the judiciary analysed the whole sequence of events in detail. The accused have been punished… While there were frequent riots in Gujarat before 2002, no major incident has happened after 2002,” the PM added.
Referring to Osama Bin Laden’s killing by US forces in a safehouse in Abbottabad, Modi pointed to the 9/11 terror attacks in the US. “The main mastermind behind it, Osama bin Laden, where did he eventually emerge from? He had taken refuge in Pakistan. The world has recognized that in a way terrorism and the terrorist mindset are deeply rooted in Pakistan. Today, it stands as an epicentre of turmoil, not just for India but for the world. And we have repeatedly asked them what good can come from this path.”
Modi also spoke about his visit to Lahore: “I personally travelled to Lahore in the pursuit of peace. When I became Prime Minister, I specially invited Pakistan (then PM Nawaz Sharif) to my swearing-in ceremony so we could turn over a new leaf. But, every noble attempt at fostering peace was met with hostility and betrayal,” he said.
He also sounded optimistic about India-China ties, saying differences between neighbours are natural and emphasised the ancient cultural ties between the two civilisations. “Our cooperation is not only (mutually) beneficial but also essential for global peace and prosperity,” he said.